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Discussion Engine Oil Brand

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iewoug:
one possible explaination is that the basestock + additive pack used alr meets all those specs..so when they "assemble" together such a product..it is thus meeting all these specs.

with time, the generic ingredients can usually "catch up" and meet the OEM specs as these OEM specs become more prevalent. however for the latest OEM spec certification only those who invest in R&D will have. For e.g. VW has a relatively new spec VW504.00. If I'm not wrong only certain oil major brands' products carry this certification.

but then again, remember that like I said above, all these specs are "baseline" specs, meaning alot of products can meet a certain spec but it doesn't say which one is better than the other in terms of actual performance, largely because these industry standards do not test for the various properties of the EOs, for e.g. how well it cleans the engine, how well it dissipates heat etc. What separates one brand from another is thus the kind of additives used. Also, if I'm not wrong they are most likely using group III basestock.

kspchew:
Wow, that's very informative. :thumbsup:

How about hydro crack oil? One of the workshop guys mentioned that its even better than synthetic oil.
True ? :confused1:

iewoug:
Hydrocracking is a process used upstream in oil refining.

Basestock derived from hydrocracking are termed Group II basestocks and are mostly mineral grades.

Group III basestocks are usually processed from a process called isohydromerization.

PAO is considered Group IV.

In a nutshell Grp IV > Grp III > Grp II.

The higher grouped basestock has a higher viscosity index than a lower grouped basestock.

A higher viscosity index enables the lube to retain its viscosity under harsh operating temperatures without "thinning out" and losing its lubricating properties.

Going by the above a Grp IV (PAO) lube will be able last much longer and perform under harsher condition than a Grp III lube, and thereafter.

This is also the reason why the oil drain interval (ODI) for a synthetic lube (Grp III or IV) is much longer than a mineral (Grp I or II) lube.

To build on my above posts, a Grp III lube already meets all SAE/API requirements to be classified as a fully-synth EO. However an Grp IV lube's performance will far exceed that of a Grp III, but yet both will be bearing the same SAE/API classification.

Factor in the variance in lubricant properties due to differences in additive formulation, two fully-synth EOs can have wildly different performance characteristics.

Sad fact is that a lot of consumers are not savvy about EOs and so-called "experts" usually have superficial knowledge only or have a vested interest in promoting certain brands. This has led to a proliferation of various "mickey mouse" brands and certain niche "performance" brands appearing in the market.

Think about it, workshops earn a margin from the EOs they use for servicing your cars. Whichever suppliers' products gives them the best margin or benefits-in-kind will be the ones they will be telling you is best for your car. It is a business afterall.

It is just like going to the doctor's. Patients usually don't question the doctor on the efficacy of the medicine being prescribed. Those who do do not have enough knowledge to self-medicate.

Hope this clarifies.

iewoug:
Another reason why "carlube" branded lubes can be so cheap:

- They are only sold in retail channel (hypermarts)
Whichever company is importing in the product has much lower overheads than other major brands since they probably don't have a big sales force to maintain, do not need to offer sponsorships etc to outside workshops, do not have to do marketing/branding etc, no need to do R&D etc.

Just buy base oil and standard additive pack, blend, package and sell direct to retailers at dirt cheap prices.

Hypermarts love them since they are "loss leaders" and attract shoppers to their stores, who in turn end up purchasing other higher margin products which make up for the thin margin they make on the lubricant.

For all motorists who are involved enough to read up on EOs and enquire about EOs online etc, I would urge you not to penny-pinch. If you want a good quality lube, you will need to pay for the quality. Do not expect to pay the price of a Cherry QQ and expect the performance of a Aston Martin, even though both are cars, have four wheels, etc.

Hope noone is mistaken here, I've no vested interest here and am not advocating any particular brand or dismissing any particular brand either.

Just sharing my knowledge on this topic, leaving it to yourself to discern which brand/products are the quality ones.

kspchew:
Thanks again for the detail clarification.  :thumbsup:

Oh man, this mechanics (whom recommend hydro crack EO)really know nuts about EO.
I wonder how they are still able to market their hydrocrack EO as fully synthetic, (L1Qu1 Mo1y) T0pte* 4100.

They had claimed that this is a long life EO and replacment interval is 20k km :scared:

Guess, I will stick to Carlube and have EO change at 5K Km

Cheers!

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